Mel: [00:00:00] While books are not immune from the AI revolution, in fact, AI written books are everywhere on Amazon now, they may still be one of the few channels left where people treat AI with absolute disdain and absolutely demand a human touch.

Writing a book is not only a very human endeavour and a way of connecting with other people, it's also a way to establish yourself as a thought leader. A book, whether self-published or not, can give you credibility and lead to opportunities you never dreamed possible. At least that's certainly been my experience.

Also, it's just nice to get all your ideas down in one place sometimes. Now, as an author, I get asked regularly about the process of writing a book, and the answer is there are many pathways you could take. But if you really have been thinking about writing a book, then there's one thing that could be incredibly helpful, and that is getting yourself a book coach, which is who I'm interviewing today.

Jade Miller is an author, artist, book coach, and creative strategist [00:01:00] helping smart people create world-class non-fiction books. Leading with the diagnostic question almost ev- nobody asks first, is a book the right thing? Jade brings her 20-plus years of communications expertise, writing and publishing experience, and her creative flair to the book coaching table.

She helps authors untangle their ideas, develop strong foundations with a book blueprint, and provides ongoing support and accountability through the publishing journey. Now, Jade is much better at book coaching than I am, which is why I wanted to talk to her on the show. So if you're keen to write a book, maybe you've got a little inkling to write, or maybe you've been trying to encourage someone else to publish their thought leadership, then this is the episode for you and for them.

So without further ado, let's get into it. Here's Jade

Jade Miller, welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter.

Jade: Hello, Mel. Lovely to see you.

Mel: It's lovely to see you too, and this [00:02:00] episode in itself has been a while in the making 'cause, uh, we've known each other a long time, and you are a very accomplished comms person and artist. But for people who don't know who you are, can you tell us a bit about what you do and how you came to develop your expertise in that space?

Jade: Yeah, sure. So primarily at the moment, I am helping very smart people develop and create their world-class books. Um, I have spent over 20 years in communications, marketing, design, uh, with a, a whole range of creative side hustles, business, business things, um, and creative projects, and that includes publishing my own book.

Um, I re- yeah, I really enjoy book coaching with people. It's a really incredible experience for both me and for the other person, of course. Um, and it's [00:03:00] just been a very exciting sort of pivot, I guess, away from traditional comms into a more specific, um, medium, I guess, that people are writing, um, with their books.

Um, and yeah, just really enjoying that at the moment. So I'm happy to be here to chat with you all about it and hopefully help some people with their book writing.

Mel: Yeah. So, uh, your book is called Making Lemonade. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Jade: Yeah, sure. Uh, so it's Making Lemonade: Uh, An Antidote to the Existential Crisis.

It's a somewhat irreverent, humorous, self-development, um, experience I would say. Uh, just, just talking through and sharing with people about how we can get through some really hard challenges in life, uh, understanding ourselves, understanding each other, and connecting with one another, and understanding the bigger context of life and some of the systems and [00:04:00] processes that we're subject to in this existence.

Uh, yeah, I published a couple of years ago, and I ... It was just a really fantastic experience. It's hard going, writing a book- Mm ... but it's really worth it. And I ... It was probably more of a- For me, uh, it was more of a creative expression project, and people have different reasons why they write books, and that is totally valid to do that as a, you know, a personal sort of project.

Um, and then other people wanna use it as an authority piece for their business or for their career. Um, yeah, there's different... People have different reasons why they write books.

Mel: Yeah. Uh, and I, I certainly know from my own experience that, uh, I get asked a lot, actually I was just asked yesterday, about the process of writing a book and how, you know, the start to finish, how we, how we even get started with an idea right through to the publishing, the [00:05:00] marketing, all that sort of bits and bobs.

Is that something you get asked a lot? Is that kind of what led you to the book coaching piece?

Jade: Mm. Yeah, sort of... It, it was actually sort of accidental getting into the book coaching. Uh, a mutual friend, as you know, Prina Shah, so she asked me to coach her finishing her manuscript and publishing, self-publishing her manuscript, um, for her book, uh, Make Work Meaningful.

And we dis- I guess I discovered with her through that process, I was actually really good at coaching people in this space, and I, yeah, just thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah. And then somebody else asked me, and somebody else asked me, and so now here I am as a book coach helping several people bring their work into the world.

Mel: Which is awesome. So let's talk about book writing, because I do feel there's a lot of people who listen to this podcast who have thought about writing a book maybe [00:06:00] one day, are curious about it. What are some of the common challenges people have when it comes to writing a book that you see?

Jade: Yeah. I think the...

There's probably three that I can think of, and the first one is really nailing the idea, the core idea. Um- People often have multiple ideas within their idea, but they don't necessarily realise that. So I love helping people get to the core purpose, the core reader, um, who your audience is, and what the transformation is gonna be for them, you know, from A to B, whatever that might be.

Um, I think tr- the challenge is trying to cram too much into a first book particularly. There's ... Yeah, if you have, if you have ideas, that's fantastic, but it's sort of, um, you've gotta really focus [00:07:00] those into something that's one core thing that people will be able to talk about. Um, I guess another challenge is maintaining momentum through the book writing process, because it can be very exciting and you get a lot of ideas out to begin with, but it is a, it's a marathon and it can be, uh, it can be disheartening through the, with the ups and downs of the process.

So, um, maintaining momentum and working ... I work with people when they're on their, you know, good s- good phases, bad phases, but getting people s- to stay motivated is, um, is, can be a real challenge. Um, the other thing that I think is a challenge is, uh, people not thinking beyond publish date. Mm. So the [00:08:00] marketing and what you really want the book to achieve for you.

If you've got ideas about that, then you need to have a plan for it. So I think, um, that can be a real challenge, because going through the book writing process and then you get to publish and you sort of breathe a sigh of relief, but, uh, there's actually quite a lot of work to do post publishing.

Mel: Yeah. I completely agree.

I think, uh, for me, the easy part was actually writing the book. It was the hard part was what came next. So-

Jade: Yes ...

Mel: for a person who thinks they might have a book in them, where do you suggest they start? Because, uh, writing a book can, just even saying that, can feel quite overwhelming. Where would you suggest they start?

Jade: For sure. I, I think it comes back to that, uh- Developing what that core idea is and doing some foundational work on [00:09:00] teasing out what that is, really identifying who your reader is and what the transformation is that you're offering and what you're giving to people. Um, people might wanna write a book and share all of their knowledge, which is, you know, that's fantastic, but, uh, what is it that you're really offering people?

Why are they gonna pick it up? Why is somebody gonna mention your book, and how will they say it in one sentence? How will they, you know, ref- refer you or share what your, what your work is? Um I run a session like that with people to tease out their initial idea to help sort of set up the foundations so that people aren't wasting time necessarily, um, doing

You know, going down one direction and then realising, oh, this is actually all wrong. Let's [00:10:00] start again. You know, so it can help save people time by really doing that foundational ideation sort of work.

Mel: Mm.

Jade: Um, yeah. And, and sometimes I think it's actually working out ... Y- you might have an idea, but is your idea a book?

People often think-

Mel: Mm ... "

Jade: I wanna write a book," but is it a book? And, uh, that's another thing that I sort of help people tease out. Might be the only book coach that puts myself out of work- ... doing that by getting to the, getting to the end of that and going, "Well, maybe it's not a book, it might just be a podcast."

But, um ... Well, not just a podcast. Podcast is big too, but, um, yeah. I think, is it ... The first question is, yeah, is it a book, is probably- the big thing.

Mel: I think that's a great question ... Uh, and it's not something I ever considered asking myself, uh, to be honest, and I think you're absolutely right. Like, we do this a lot at work as comms people, like, [00:11:00] right?

Like, should this be an email, or should this be a phone call? Should this be a, a town hall, or maybe this should be some round tables? And to me, it comes back to the audience, right? Who are you creating this for in the first place, and how do you think they're going to use it as well? Yeah. Um, so I mean, for my book, I had to get very clear on, well, I think it's for change managers, and comms people, and team leaders who want to get better at communicating change.

That was the first book. What about you? Who were you writing your first book for?

Jade: Yeah. My book was for women in their 30s. I'd sort of just come out of my 30s and faced a bunch of challenges that w- we do in our 30s, you know, going through a divorce, some brain surgery, the, a whole raft of things. Uh, my book was

And also part of it was about, um, discovering my neurodivergence. So, uh, that is interwoven. It's not solely about that, but it's sort of about ... It's about that, and it's for women who [00:12:00] have had a similar experience, have, may have, you know, recently discovered they have ADHD, or they've gone through some stuff.

And it was sort of just me getting out my process of how I've managed to get through some really big life challenges. Hmm.

Mel: So it sounds like you are very specific in your audience. Is that something you'd suggest for people?

Jade: Definitely. I think it's very difficult, and people find it hard because they think that they're excluding other people by getting specific about one person.

But you're not, you're not excluding anyone, you're just honing your focus so that you're speaking to one person, and it just makes it more human, it makes it more, um, connectable. It's just a really good way to engage with your writing, is to write as if you're just speaking to one person, and [00:13:00] understanding who that person is, what their needs are, what their, um, their self-consciousnesses are, you know, the things that they're, that are going on for them.

Um, understanding all of that, and then, y- you know, even creating a persona-

Mel: Hmm ...

Jade: of that, uh, of that person, and h- just having that in mind when you're, when you're writing to focus. Yeah.

Mel: Which is, is it, almost comms 101, isn't it? It's like understand your audience, segment them. Um, it... I feel like it does make it easier, and like you say, it's not excluding anybody, it's just law of averages really, right?

When there's, you're not gonna be one person out, very, well, very rarely one person out there that ticks all the boxes in your persona. But- Yeah ... um, pieces of that will, will ring true for people. So let's say you've, you've started the book, you've got the idea clear, and you know who you're writing to or for, what's the process then, do you think, that would best help people for just getting the draft [00:14:00] done?

Getting the first crappy draft onto- Hmm ... paper or virtual paper?

Jade: Yeah. Uh, another thing that I do with people is help to structure, to put a bit of a structure in place. I think that when you have the idea, um, you know, you might have one core idea, and then try to name 10 things about that idea to give you chapter headings to work with.

Uh, that's a really good start to then to brain dump into those subtopics, I guess. Mm. And the brain dumping is really important, because that's part of how you process and get the really good stuff out. People might start a chapter and- The, the really good stuff isn't until five paragraphs in, and then you end up deleting all of the earlier stuff because that's just you, you processing the topic, [00:15:00] processing the story- Mm-hmm

processing the idea. Um, but it is really important to do that brain dumping and not be tr- not necessarily be trying to write perfectly to begin with-

Mel: Mm ...

Jade: but just understanding that there's a creative process going on, and the more you do, the more gold you'll get from it.

Mel: Yeah, I think structure- I think having-

for anything is, is useful, isn't it? Because, uh, trying to just sit down and let it all flow, I'm not sure y- whether that's sustainable, but also, um, I've certainly found that just getting ... I have so many ideas in my head that without a structure it would just be an absolute mess. I, I need to be able to categorise that because again, in my head it all makes sense.

Yeah. Out in the real world any- anybody outside of my head might be like, "What the hell is she talking about?" Um-

Jade: Yeah ... [00:16:00]

Mel: and that structure can change as you write, like, right? Like, you're like, "Oh, actually-" Absolutely ... "that doesn't work as much as I thought," or, "I'm gonna change that to this," or whatever. Like, that's fine.

Um, but it's that fluidity as well and being open to changing the structure, for myself at least, was a bit of a learning curve. Coming up with the structure in the first place that made sense was a big learning, especially for the first book. Um, and also for me it was about going, "Well, what stories best illustrate each one of these points I want to make?"

Um, yeah. Yeah. And I was talking to somebody yesterday who is writing her first book, and one of the things she asked me was, "How do I write about work-related stories when I probably won't get permission to mention their names and all that sort of stuff?" What would your response to that be?

Jade: Mm. I would suggest, I, I mean, it's quite easy to anonymise things-

Mel: [00:17:00] Mm

Jade: Um, I think those stories are valuable, and I guess you could write it with a lot of your ... If it's a, you know, say, say there's a scenario that's happened and it's relatable to your chapter, and it was

It may, there may be things that come up as you're writing that are a bit challenging for you. Mm. But keeping that part out of it and keeping it, um, like a practical lesson in a generic way, I think it's definitely possible to keep thing- keep those kind of stories anonymous.

Mel: Mm. Yeah, I agree. And the flip side is if it's been reported in media, then to me, like, well, that's out in public domain already.

So if we're talking about a case study like, well, just this week in Australia we had, um, the Telstra outage last couple weeks ago. I mean, that's widely reported. Yeah. You can talk about that. You know, there's things- Yes ... that are out there that are very public [00:18:00] that-

Jade: Yes ...

Mel: make the same point if you're really worried about it, I think.

Um-

Jade: Yeah.

Mel: So we've gone through the process of writing the draft. We've structured, we've written the draft. What might happen next?

Jade: Okay. So part of the decision for your process is about whether you want to pitch to a publisher or you want to self-publish.

Mel: Mm.

Jade: I work mainly with people who are self-publishing nonfiction.

Uh, but there is the opportunity to pitch to publishers. Um, there's a couple of benefits and downsides to both, to getting a book deal with a publisher and, and self-publishing. Getting a book deal, uh, you get the benefit of distribution and credibility of having a publishing house- logo on your work. That can open doors with the publisher too, you know, [00:19:00] getting into writer's festivals and things like that.

Uh, and the distribution, people often, the, you know, the dream is to have your book in an airport bookstore. Yeah. Um, that's often sort of top of the list, and you can do that with a publishing house. You can also do it yourself, but it's just a little bit harder, I guess. Um, so that distribution is really the key thing with a publisher.

They will, um, have their own criteria around what they need from you, what they will offer you, and it v- it really varies depending on who you are, what you have to offer, what work you've already done, what audience you have, as to, you know, how much advance they will pay you, to how many books they want you to buy back, because there's always a buyback clause where you have to buy back a certain number of your own books.

Okay. Um, so there's a cost there. Even though they pay you in advance, you still [00:20:00] will have a cost to buying a certain number. Um- You may ... The, o- one of the other benefits of self-publishing is that you have full creative control. Mm. So you control the timeline of when you wanna publish, you control e- everything, basically.

You, um ... The cover, the audiobook, the, um, your distribution. If you have an au- if you have quite a big audience, self-publishing is not a bad idea, um, because you can, you have, if you have reach already, then yes, publishers will actually love that. But if you've got your own reach, you end up with more money in the bank, essentially, or revenue from the books, because you get more.

You're not paying royalties to the publishing house. So it really depends. That's a b- that's sort of a big decision, and it really depends what your goals are. So yes, publishing house, [00:21:00] distribution, and that credibility angle. Self-publishing, full creative control. You determine when and where and what you produce.

So yeah, th- it's quite a, it's a complex sort of web, but there's, that's sort of the basics of that, I think. Yeah. It's a big decision.

Mel: And I think, uh, just from my own experience just self-publishing for both my books, there is a cost to doing that too. It's, uh, paying editors, paying people to lay out, you know, typeset it, and to, well, in my case, design my cover.

You- you're talented enough to do that for yourself. Um, and then, you know, I did a print run for both my books so that I would have copies- Yeah ... to give out at events and send to people, and that sort of thing too. So I think that's the other thing, too. It's, there is going to be a cost up front for the self-publishing, as well as thinking about, yeah, like you said, there's that book buyback issue with publishers.

So either way- Yeah ... you're probably gonna spend money.

Jade: Yes, you definitely will. [00:22:00] It just, it tends to be a bit cheaper to self-publish. So that is, that's probably something that people may not realise, is that there is cost involved, and you will have to, like you say, hire an editor- Yeah ... and yeah, do the design work and all of those extra things.

Um, but you get to choose who does that.

Mel: Mm.

Jade: And you can, um, get good recommendations. I have a bunch of recommendations if anyone needs anything. Um, yeah, so there's definitely cost both ways, but slightly cheaper on the self-publish, I think.

Mel: So if you had a client who said, "I wanna pitch this to a publisher," what advice would you give them?

Jade: I think, um, the first thing is to make sure that you do have that idea, that core idea, and that it's a powerful, transformational- core idea for, um, the book. I [00:23:00] think knowing your publishers as well, knowing what k- types of work they produce, what, um, what their distribution channels might be, what topics are hot right now.

Um, the other thing I might suggest is actually cont- you can, um, you can pitch direct to publishers. There are quite a few publishers in Australia that will take direct submissions from people. I know it's different in the US and the UK. They often will ... publishers will often take pitches more from agents.

So you- Oh,

Mel: okay ...

Jade: might be trying to pitch to an agent rather than a publisher if you live in those countries. Um, but, uh, contacting the publisher and asking for submission format guidelines is helpful because that will help you tighten up your, um, like, your, the overview that you wanna send to them. [00:24:00] I think people maybe, y- you know, something we've talked about, this is a Leanne Hughes thing, is the thing, the way that you do the thing is the thing.

So, uh, you wanna publisher to publish your book, then your pr- your presentation of your proposal needs to be looking and sounding like what your book would look and sound like. Mm-hmm. And be really clear, be really tight. These people are busy. Um, they, they wanna, they wanna ... They're looking for, you know, like, the next big idea, like a grand idea, like something that's really p- got punch to it.

So yeah, it does come back t- again to that foundational work of establishing what your core idea is and who your reader is, and understanding that.

Mel: Mm. That's really good advice. Thank you. Uh, last official question of the session: [00:25:00] what do you think, we've touched on a little bit of this already, but what do you think people underestimate or don't realise about the book writing process?

Jade: I think there's a couple of things, and y- and I've have already touched, I guess, on it, but, um, the power of your audience and your personal brand can really, uh ... If you're ... I think if you're planning to write a book, you wanna publish a book, you start building that now before you've even started the book writing process.

You ... It, it's a really- There's a couple of reasons why. One, if you're starting to, you know, uplift your personal brand and uplift your content and start really connecting with people, you will get feedback, uh, from people, from your audience that will help you with your writing process. [00:26:00] So if you're putting content out there that may be part of what you're gonna write about in your book, and then you're getting

You're receiving feedback, comments, whatever, that, that all can inform how you end up writing about that particular topic.

Mel: Mm.

Jade: And it also just helps share and promote and, you know, having those ... Having a, having an audience and having connection of, with people, uh, it does really help you, yeah, to promote, yeah, to promote your work.

Um, so being proactive in that space, I think people underestimate that a little bit. Yeah. And yeah, the ... And coming back to that thing of the marketing, like the, what's your plan post-publishing? Like, um, you- Mm If you want your book to open doors for new business, then what is your plan for doing that? If you [00:27:00] want

You know, I've had clients, um, featured in Forbes, for example. If you want that, then hiring the right PR people and- Mm ... having a, having a PR plan and having a marketing plan. Um, I think, yeah, because there is so much work in getting that piece of work together in your book, the ... It can feel tiring and exhausting to continue on, but it is really important depending on how far you want the book to go.

Mel: Mm. Yeah. Um- I completely agree. And I think too, uh, and this is, yeah, borrowing from the PR playbook and the, the change comms playbook as well, is having an elevator pitch so that any time somebody says, "What's your book about?" you can explain it really clearly and succinctly. Um, and if you can't do that off the top of your head, then maybe you need to rethink, I think, maybe the focus a little bit.

But getting very clear on that [00:28:00] is so important for spruiking the book, but also just, you know, being able to answer that question when a publisher might knock on your door, you never know and say-

Jade: Yeah, that's right ... "What's your book about?" Yeah.

I think there's ... And I think there's space ... The other thing I think is that people may not realise ... I think we're coming into an exciting time for creative work. I think there are gonna be the people who smash out their books on AI and self-publish and, you know, anybody can do that now. But I think what is exciting is that there's more space for creativity, there's more space for humanity, empathy, really understanding and giving your au- your audience an experience with your storytelling, with even creative formats like-

Mel: Mm

Jade: corporate comics. Like, instead of, you know, taking some serious stuff that's very [00:29:00] serious and very knowledge-focused and turning it more into something creative and storytelling. I mean, we know that that helps with, um, getting the message across, but, um, it just also just gives you leverage if you just wanna do something a bit different.

And, um, yeah, I just think there's a lot of opportunity for, for different formats, and I'm really excited to work with people who might be interested in that too. Like, I don't know, scrapbook style, comic style. I've been thinking about my next book and possibly even doing a very illustrated- book rather than a lot of writing, doing a lot of illustrations with less writing.

So, you know, which, I mean, that appeals to people because we are short on time. A lot of people don't finish books. They sit by the [00:30:00] bedside. So something that's, uh, more visual and succinct I think could be a really good way of getting some messages across. So yeah, I have a- I'm excited about the potential ideas for future authors and the way that we can produce books-

Mel: Mm

Jade: uh, to stand out in, in the technology-driven world that we're in.

Mel: AI slop, yeah.

Jade: Yeah,

Mel: yeah. And, uh, so the, the, the research I've just recently done around AI, you know, people know when it's been written by AI. They're less likely to engage with it because of that. Um, they certainly don't trust necessarily what they're hearing any more than what they'd hear from a human being.

Uh, so this does seem to be the frontier where, you know, people are very much like hands off. Keep your- Yeah ... AI, keep your hands off our books. That's- Yes ... this is our, this is our domain I think so. This is the human domain- Yeah ... and yeah. Um- Yeah ... you know, using AI to create images for your books or whatever or, you know, to help you market it, [00:31:00] sure.

But-

Jade: Yeah ...

Mel: you know, the ideas and the stories and the voice are yours, and so unique that, uh, people see right through it when it's not. Um-

Jade: Absolutely, yeah. Uh, and that's what I love drawing out of people, is the unique essence of the human that I'm working with and not, um, yeah, not turning to AI for the writing part, for sure.

Yeah. I really think that credibility used to sit in knowledge and how much knowledge you have, but I think now credibility is gonna sit with how human you are and how you portray your humanity and the human skills and the empathy and the, what those elements bring.

Mel: Mm.

Jade: Think that's gonna be much stronger- Yeah

and people are gonna be looking for that and enjoying it a lot more. Like- Adding value ... real human connection.

Mel: Yeah. Who knew? Well, Jade, that sounds like a whole other conversation we need to have, but for the- Mm ... purposes of today's episode, uh, we have [00:32:00] three questions we ask every guest. Are you ready for those?

Jade: Yes.

Mel: Excellent. First question, what is an unexpected or left-of-field way that you've learnt a valuable lesson about communication?

Jade: Yeah, so for this one I wanted to share, uh, there's a quote by Maya Angelou, um, "People will forget what you said or what you did, but they remember how you made them feel."

Mel: Mm.

Jade: And I think that is a core, I think that's a core principle as communicators that we sometimes forget when we're trying to get a l- a lot of information across, it can be hard to think about the emotional side of things. But emotions are not separate from work. Mm. People are a whole being with, yes, practical knowledge and skills, but also emotions.

So you would know this in all your change comms stuff- Yeah ... that's like [00:33:00] a really big thing, um, is how you're making people feel and how you, what you want them to feel, what you want them to go away with once they've interacted with your piece of communication, whatever that might be.

Mel: Mm. I agree. Yeah, it's, you know, focus on the feeling and the rest will kind of follow.

In a, in a, in m- many ways, whether it's conflict or work communication, you know, if you want to feel like you've, uh, made a difference, that people respect you, then you gotta communicate in a way that listens to that too, so. Yeah. Um, next question: What is a book or a podcast you love and would recommend to our listeners?

Jade: Oh, yes. So I'm currently reading Lena Dunham's Fame Sick memoir. Oh, yeah. So Lena Dunham created the show Girls, HBO show Girls, and it's her memoir through, uh, her rise to fame, [00:34:00] producing and creating, writing the show, directing. She's an, she's an incredible creator, an incredible artist, and it's quite a fascinating read as to how quickly she rose to fame and all the challenges that came with that.

And if you've watched Girls, then, you know, there's all the chara- like, the, the actors are in there, and the, and the stories are in there- Yeah ... about how it was created. If you haven't watched Girls then you probably need to, and then- ... read the book.

Mel: Sounds like an excellent recommendation. Thank you. And final question: If you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about communication at work, what would it be?

Jade: So for me, I think I would love to see people drop political facades and get on the same team, come back to your core purpose of what you're there to achieve, and connect [00:35:00] with one another in a, in a just a bit more of a real authentic way, and understanding each other better. So, you know, in workplaces, there's-- we all have masks and facades and, and personas that we want, you know, we want people to see us a certain way.

We wanna show that we are knowledgeable or, you know, whatever it is. But I think coming back to that humanity aspect, uh, dropping some of that stuff and just being real and, you know, sometimes you don't know the answers, and being okay with not knowing the answers. Sometimes there's someone in the room who might be younger or in a less senior position who might actually have the solution.

So being open to, you know, understanding who that person is and, and connecting with them. So I think, uh, yeah, just dropping, dropping away a bit of the maybe, you know, corporate, political kind of masking that we do in [00:36:00] workplaces and connect on a more real level. I think, you know, fi- coming back to that core purpose of why you're there and who it's for, and focusing on that, not necessarily dynamics and climbing ladders and, you know, all of that sort of stuff.

The ego, yeah. That would be my magic wand wave.

Mel: I would love that. Cast your spell, please. Well, Jade, thank you so much for being a guest on Less Chatter, More Matter. Now, if people want to connect with you about, uh, book coaching or to see any of the amazing work that you do, what's the best way for them to do that?

Jade: Yeah, sure. So I'm happy to connect on LinkedIn. I'm under Jade Miller Consulting, uh, jademiller.com.au. There's information on there about book coaching, and I'm happy to, yeah, um, receive any messages on LinkedIn. I also share, uh, stuff on Instagram, which is just slightly in the more personal space and more about my creativity and art [00:37:00] and, uh, creative activities that I do.

But I do share a bit about book coaching and stuff on there as well. So, um, that's Lemonade with Jade on Instagram. So yeah, I would love to connect with anyone, answer any questions. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.

Mel: Oh, it's my pleasure, Jade. Thanks so much.