[00:00:00] Mel: Hi, and welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter, a podcast about all things communication without the waffle. I'm your host, Mel Loy, and in this show, I will give you short, punchy, practical communication tips and insights. You can start using in your communication practices right away. I'm a former corporate communication executive who happily took a redundancy, started my own business, and never looked back.

[00:00:27] Mel: These days, I use my 20 plus years of experience to help guide organisations of all shapes and sizes in how to communicate more effectively. I'm wife to Michael, cat mum to Cookie, aunty to 12 nieces and nephews, a yoga teacher, and a group fitness fanatic. I promise these episodes will always be short, sharp, and helpful, so let's get amongst it.

[00:00:52] Mel: Hey there friends and welcome back to another episode of Less Chatter, More Matter. It's wonderful to have you along for the [00:01:00] ride today and a special shout out to those of you who have rated and left a review of the show, or if you shared feedback with me directly over the last few weeks, I appreciate you more than you know. Now, speaking of appreciation, today's episode is an interview with someone I appreciate very much, Lisa-Marie Vecchio.

[00:01:18] Mel: Lisa-Marie or Lisa to her friends, is a Brisbane based graphic designer and muralist. She illustrates art that encourages and uplifts. Her designs are recognised as colourfully eye catching, created with the intention of communicating hope, joy and empowerment. Now, after 10 years of working as a designer in the business and corporate sectors, Lisa-Marie started to explore the more creative side of design and she saw a shift in her art style.

[00:01:45] Mel: And so she then looked for opportunities to recreate her digital artwork as murals. And she uses that to refresh public spaces with a burst of vibrance and colour. Lisa is actually the one who designed my brand for Hey Mel! Comms and you can spot her murals in and around [00:02:00] Brisbane. And we mentioned one of those in particular in this episode.

[00:02:02] Mel: So listen out for that. Now I interviewed Lisa because so much of what we do as communicators revolves around branding and making sure that our messaging and visual brand align and that visual brand is applied properly in our work. Lisa is an absolute expert in this field. And in this episode, she shared a bunch of her tips for creating and applying branding.

[00:02:23] Mel: And we also have a little bit of a chat about how AI and graphic design is currently intersecting and where it might go. Lisa is an absolute delight and I really encourage you to look out for her work on Instagram and her website. We've popped the links in the show notes. Okay. Without further ado, here's Lisa.

[00:02:43] Mel: Hey Lisa. Thanks for joining me on Less Chatter, More Matter today.

[00:02:47] Lisa-Marie: Good morning Mel. How are you going?

[00:02:49] Mel: Oh, I'm excited to have you Obviously.

[00:02:53] Lisa-Marie: Yeah.

[00:02:54] Mel: Just for a chat. So for those who don't know you as well as I know you, tell us a little bit about you. Who are [00:03:00] you? What did you do? Or what do you do? And how did you come to develop your expertise?

[00:03:07] Lisa-Marie: So my name is Lisa or, uh, LM for short. I am a graphic designer and muralist, uh, creating with the intention of sharing hope and joy through my artwork, uh, back in, um, I've always sort of wanted to be a designer artist since I was quite young. So started sharpening my expertise through school and then went to uni, studied a Bachelor of Communication Design and then, um, since coming out of uni went straight into full time work for about 10 years; working for other businesses, but never really putting the time... out for myself or refining what I wanted to do, which was quite colourful and bright and bold as opposed to the corporate side.

[00:03:55] Lisa-Marie: Um, so when 2020 hit, uh, and people had their [00:04:00] iPads and they're all drawing and creating all these beautiful things because, you know, we had a lot of downtime to do that, I was kind of like, I want that, like, I felt quite inspired to follow that as well. And through that, it made me realize I was like, you know what, it's probably best I hang up those.

[00:04:16] Lisa-Marie: Um, you know, working for someone else and start exploring what it's like to be freelance and creating. I want not what anyone else is expecting of me.

[00:04:30] Mel: Yeah. That's awesome. And yeah, I can say with, uh, having worked with you myself, so full disclosure, Lisa Marie did the branding for my business when I first started out, uh, she's a joy to work with, but also, yeah, your style is very... unique and you've gone gangbusters as well. I mean, some of the murals you've done, uh, if you're a Brisbane local, you can check them out on some electricity boxes around the city as well. I think the high hopes and green slopes mural is one of your most famous artworks.

[00:04:59] Lisa-Marie: [00:05:00] Yes.

[00:05:00] Mel: Sign it for us one day.

[00:05:01] Lisa-Marie: Yeah. It's the original. It's the original and the best. I think that was the first one I was like, you know what, I'm going to do something different. And I didn't really paint as much. in my corporate jobs because it didn't need it. But I was like, man, I would just want to do something crazy. And for me, painting an electricity box is crazy because I was just so, you know, thinking so small and little.

[00:05:27] Mel: Yeah. And I love that as a fellow entrepreneur slash solopreneur slash, you know, get out of my comfort zone, try something. Uh, yeah, it is that spirit isn't of just, you know what, give it a go. You don't want to regret. Not trying it at the end of the day. Um, so I think that's great. So the reason I wanted to chat to you today, apart from the fact that you're an amazing human is because, you know, this podcast is all about practical communication tips for people.

[00:05:52] Mel: And a lot of us who work in comms, obviously brand is a really, uh, underlying foundation for a lot of the work we do. [00:06:00] And so one of the questions I want to ask you is if from your experience working in your capacity now as a freelancer, but also in your previous corporate roles and with the clients that you work with, why is visual branding so important to a business?

[00:06:15] Lisa-Marie: It's important because it is the face of your brand and I know a lot of people do come to me and they've got everything else set up in their business, a lot of small businesses. Um, and it's like people kind of see branding as a fluffy cherry on top, but I see it as like, you need to have that sorted because it's the first thing that people see when they come to deal with your business.

[00:06:39] Lisa-Marie: And a lot of people come to me and they're like, why should I give a rip about branding? It's not important. But it's important because if people don't know what you're putting out there. How can they trust you?

[00:06:51] Lisa-Marie: How can they, you know, how can you build relationship with them if they don't know what they're getting into when they come into business with you? [00:07:00] Um, so I always encourage people at least have something and it doesn't have to be the most elaborate extravagant brand you've ever seen. But as long as you have... something that's solid and concrete and you're happy to replicate it across, you know, socials and website and things like that. Um, you just got to start somewhere and yeah, it helps to talk with the designer and it also helps to sort of. Understand and look introspectively of like, what are my values?

[00:07:34] Lisa-Marie: What am I, you know, core beliefs? What do I want to, what do I want to put out to the world? So people know what they're getting when they work with my business.

[00:07:43] Mel: So it's like the visual representation of you, isn't it?

[00:07:46] Lisa-Marie: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Especially cause I'm working with a lot of small businesses. It's the visual represent, visual representation of that person that started it.

[00:07:55] Lisa-Marie: You've just got to put something out there instead of [00:08:00] not because. You not communicating who you are sends out like a clear message of like you just don't care or you don't know what you want.

[00:08:09] Mel: So what I'm hearing, it sounds like, uh, the conversations that you have with your clients, it's very much around using brand to build trust and by building trust, then we help to grow business. Would that be right?

[00:08:23] Lisa-Marie: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:08:24] Mel: And I guess that leads me to my next question. You know, visual communication is a type of communication that is so powerful, but often underused, you know, we rely on... lists of dot points and lots of words and, uh, or even, you know, long podcasts, for example. From your perspective and the work that you've done over the years, why is visual communication so powerful? How does it work to sort of engage people?

[00:08:53] Lisa-Marie: It's really powerful because a lot of our, um, Communication actually starts with [00:09:00] the, the visual side, as much as we think it's verbal and we can talk the talk.

[00:09:05] Lisa-Marie: We've actually got a, I don't know, like display the walk. There's a, there's a rule out there and it goes the 7, 38, 55 rule. And it's 7 percent of all communication is done through verbal communication. You know what we're doing right now. Whereas the non verbal component of our daily communication, such as the tonality of our voice or the body language or, the look and feel of things - they make up 38 percent and 55 percent respectively.

[00:09:34] Lisa-Marie: I think it's, it's just, it's something that helps us see if something's safe to engage with or not. Um, and not just safe, but also someone that's trustworthy, dependable, and that business can give us what we're looking for. So yeah, it's a huge, it's actually much more than we give it credit for, really.

[00:09:56] Mel: It sounds like with that particular rule, apart [00:10:00] from the fact that presenting something in a visual way helps people engage with it more. And from what you're saying, it's, it's about a first impression. And that really powerful first impression of your business or your brand or, or whatever it is you're putting out that you'll serve as your product.

[00:10:16] Mel: Would that be right?

[00:10:18] Lisa-Marie: Yeah, it's definitely representing it well visually.

[00:10:22] Lisa-Marie: But I think when you're trying to source clients and it's all cold calls, it's that sort of side of things that you need to build that relationship because they don't know who you are. You've got to look the part because the external reflects the internal. If it looks like you have no idea. what you're doing or you're inconsistent, then people will assume they're like, Oh, they must be super, you know, inconsistent on the back end of things as well, which might not be the case, but you kind of don't want to leave assumptions out for people to, you know, go with that, or as they'll go with another [00:11:00] competitor that looks more polished,

[00:11:02] Mel: yeah, I totally get that. You do.

[00:11:04] Mel: I mean, I do it, you know, now that we're talking about it, I think I'm my own behavior when I'm. Searching for products online and those sorts of things. And yeah, you absolutely do compare just how a website looks compared to another website. And you're like, Oh, you know, they look like a more schmick operation and more trustworthy just because they put the effort into it and it looks professional.

[00:11:23] Mel: It looks, uh, consistent with their brand. And it's all those things. I don't think we, we necessarily are conscious of thinking. But this is the process that's going through our brains when we're looking at visual communication medium is: what is this telling me outside of the words on the page?

[00:11:41] Mel: So that brings me to my next question, which is what the common mistakes people make when they're developing their brand?

[00:11:48] Lisa-Marie: Common mistakes is. that it's inconsistent and they think they could probably get away with it because they're like, Oh, I'll just patch this up here. I'll just patch that up there. They [00:12:00] haven't thought about sitting down and being consistent. And, um, it's definitely worth sitting down and investing in that time because even little things like that kind of set off, you know, potential customers to be like, can I trust them?

[00:12:17] Lisa-Marie: When you're in the market looking for clients, you've got to put your best foot forward and that comes down to being, you know, well researched and confident in what you offer and your visual brand.

[00:12:33] Mel: Yeah. Uh, when you're talking with potential clients around their brand, what are some of the things that you're asking? What are some of the questions that would help you to create a really, a brand that really, truly represents them?

[00:12:45] Lisa-Marie: Um, I love getting to know my clients for who they are and what they offer in their business, but also who they are as people. Um, I think that goes to show a lot of who they are on the outside [00:13:00] and what they bring into business.

[00:13:01] Lisa-Marie: Even things like, you know, what's your favorite coffee? What's your dog's name? What do you like to do on the weekends? Um, I like finding that out about my clients because it reflects through and it's gives. Their business personality and a heart and a soul. And often with small businesses, that is, you know, the person that they're working with.

[00:13:22] Lisa-Marie: So I want to reflect that. But also I think that goes, you know, there's a lot to say about small businesses and people are looking for... Great customer service. They're looking for that relationship where they can. Trust their client. And I love getting to know someone and bringing that out. And then it builds trust with their future clients and gives it personality. And I meet a lot of beautiful people and I would just really love to capture that and bring it out in the brand.

[00:13:50] Mel: Yeah. I love that personality in the brand. And if I'm coming to you and saying, Lisa, I'm starting a business or I'm thinking about starting a business, [00:14:00] and I obviously need a visual brand. What could I give you to help you start? What are some, what's some of the process that you go through there?

[00:14:11] Lisa-Marie: Um, I usually go to them, have a really good sit down and brainstorm and think about what colours and what fonts and you know, I say, have you got Pinterest? And they'll say yes or no. I'll be like, download Pinterest. I know it's like the easiest thing, but it's really easy for me to understand what's going on in someone's, you know, business brain when they then give me the visuals of where they want to go.

[00:14:44] Lisa-Marie: Cause it helps me get on board and go, yeah, absolutely. I can definitely help you there. Um, so Pinterest is great. They just, I just go, just fill up a pin board of anything and everything that you've got hopes and dreams for the business. And then [00:15:00] we go from there and we call out, okay. If the Pinterest board has like a million ideas, it's like, okay, let's hierarchy what your absolute non negotiable messaging is or colour palette or vibe. And, you know, we go from there.

[00:15:17] Mel: So once you've gotten to that point, you've created the logo, the colours, uh, you know, that whole sense of what this business is about in a visual way. What is your, some of, some of your top tips for then applying and using that brand?

[00:15:31] Lisa-Marie: Um, top tips is definitely, and I know this is probably a lot of other designers will agree with me - keep to the branding guideline, please, because I mean, I can totally understand once you get a brand done, you're like, I love it.

[00:15:48] Lisa-Marie: But then down the track, you're like, Oh, actually where our business is evolving into offering this or that, and you're tempted to tweak it. That's fine. But I think for the initial part. For you to [00:16:00] like get your messaging out there that's consistent and builds trust. Um, stick with it because you've spent a lot of time and energy and money to pour into it.

[00:16:11] Lisa-Marie: I think again, if you don't want to go back to using your designer, it's okay to get by and use things like Canva or Pinterest, or, um, there's another website, colors that like helps generate colour palettes, things like that. It's okay to kind of go out and use the free resources if you're still unsure.

[00:16:36] Lisa-Marie: I think it's more so like I'm happy to empower my clients to figure out what they want. And then once they're happy to go ahead with it, then I understand where they're at and then we can build out or rebrand for them.

[00:16:49] Mel: Yeah. Great. Yeah. I just want to throw a bit of a curveball at you. Just a question around the use of AI. Talk about it on this podcast a bit in terms of comms, you know, [00:17:00] things like chat, GPT and Google Bard to create words more or less, but you know, we're seeing a lot of great tools coming through Canva, but also a bunch of other, uh, design and imagery tools on. All over the world, basically, now, just the proliferation of them.

[00:17:16] Mel: What's your view on the interaction between AI and graphic design as a job?

[00:17:23] Lisa-Marie: Uh, it's really interesting because I kind of hate it, but I kind of love it. Like, and I know AI gets a lot of designers fired up because it's like, they're taking our jobs. But, like, I think AI, what AI doesn't have is The human emotion.

[00:17:42] Lisa-Marie: I mean, it's pretty good at picking that up now, but there's still a lot that AI is not hitting the mark on. Um, and I feel that's where a designer can still fill in the gaps with that or someone that's trying to build their brain can fill in the gaps.

[00:17:59] Lisa-Marie: I'm [00:18:00] not... against it because I think AI does bring like so many benefits it cuts like so much time and brain power when you just don't have the energy to like think or generate ideas . Um I think it's good for the Basics just to get by and just to really streamline, like, streamline our lives.

[00:18:21] Lisa-Marie: Um, but I think for the big things that graphic designers are awesome at, like sitting down and creating, you know, like a big artwork or something with heart and soul and energy, or something, all the things that I, like AI doesn't give. I think that's where we're strongest as designers.

[00:18:40] Lisa-Marie: Um, it's exciting. I think it's definitely we definitely have place for AI in our world. I just don't like it when people use it for bad things or yeah,

[00:18:53] Mel: huge ethical challenge with it. Massive and yeah, plagiarism as well [00:19:00] isn't is a massive issue with artists and their work being used by these other tools.

[00:19:06] Mel: And I think I'm in a similar boat to you in terms of, I think there's, you cannot replace strategy, uh, that is where we're as communicators or designers, you know, in this field where we go in, we do the strategic thinking, but you can use AI as a tool to make a lot of those repetitive tasks just so much quicker, you know, I think about, uh, Canva for example, you give me my branding guidelines and my, my logos and my colours and that sort of thing.

[00:19:35] Mel: And I can then say, cool, Canva apply this to a PowerPoint template and it will do that, like that simple stuff that would have taken me ages to try and figure out myself, do that, but it doesn't replace the original guts of it, really the heart and soul, as you say, yeah, of my brand just can't do that. It doesn't.

[00:19:54] Lisa-Marie: Yeah. And I. would like to see it, like, I'd like to see how it does it, but [00:20:00] when you do see AI try and do things like that, it just misses the mark because I don't think it's there yet. I know it's, it's kind of like an infant that's like saying things and doing things, you're like, oh, that's cute, but you're like, you, you miss the mark. You don't truly understand. The words that are coming outta your mouth. .

[00:20:18] Mel: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm just repeating what other people are saying. That's exactly what I, it does, yeah.

[00:20:23] Lisa-Marie: Yeah, it's, yeah, it's great. It's like such a time saver, but yeah, AI can't, I think right now AI is just not replacing the. Yeah. Strategy and the brains of stuff, it just outworks and tells us actually it outworks and we tell it what to do, which is, it's very useful. It's like a, you know, such a handy tool, but yeah,

[00:20:44] Mel: still has its limitations. A hundred percent,

[00:20:46] Lisa-Marie: a hundred percent. Yeah. We love it though, but I don't, I'm not worried about it taking over, but then it wouldn't surprise if it did. Cause it got so evolved and advanced. [00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Mel: Yeah, I think we're still quite away from that, which is, um, a good and a bad thing. I think there's, there's use cases that are really good, but as you say, I think the ethical part of it hasn't kept up yet. So it'd be interesting to see what happens this year in that space too, because so much happened last year. Um, yeah, I'm really excited to see what's coming up this year. So Lisa, I've got three questions that I ask every guest on the podcast.

[00:21:24] Mel: Are you ready for those?

[00:21:25] Lisa-Marie: I'm ready. Yeah.

[00:21:27] Mel: She's ready. All right. So my first question is, what's one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned and how did it change the way you approach communication?

[00:21:36] Lisa-Marie: Um, I think one of the best ones I've learned is just to be really clear and direct with your answers. Um, people don't like waiting for a straight answer. I know as an Italian, I tend to ramble a lot. They just want to know the facts because they don't have the time to like read through the blog or we get really impatient especially in this day and age and Um, yeah so I always [00:22:00] say just give people the facts up front

[00:22:02] Mel: I love that. And also as I'm telling you, you cannot talk without your hands.

[00:22:06] Mel: Okay, second question. What's one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

[00:22:18] Lisa-Marie: Um, I would love people to have more etiquette when it comes around technology. I feel Because we didn't have all this technology back when we were growing up and, you know, clear communication as in like you might, like we've lost the art of interacting really well and even to the point where ghosting is acceptable and not replying or leaving people on read is acceptable. And I understand people have their own timelines and boundaries around those things. I'm not expecting everyone to reply to me immediately or every email, but I think there's a lot to [00:23:00] show with when you, someone's requiring an answer from you and at least if it's a no or whatever, like you reply back or you say something,

[00:23:10] Mel: yeah, I would really agree with that. There's a lot to be said for, uh, I think a lot of people need to be retrained in communication skills in a digital world. Really? Yeah.

[00:23:23] Mel: Yeah. We live in a hybrid world now, you know, most workplaces are hybrid, but we haven't trained people in how to communicate in a hybrid world.

[00:23:33] Mel: You know, that communications training that was done, the business writing skills or whatever that was done years ago, wasn't fit for purpose for where we are now. And as you say, people are getting away with some really poor behaviour. Um, so I totally agree. Um, my third question is, who do you turn to for communication advice?

[00:23:51] Lisa-Marie: Um, I really like observing people like Jay Shetty or Stephen Bartlett, not cause they come out with comms [00:24:00] advice, but I. I think there's a lot to absorb from them, the way they interact with people and how they get information out of people. Um, the way that they, you know, have that countenance and that calmness and they're intrigued and people just open up because they're so like charismatic and lovely and quite deep thinkers.

[00:24:23] Lisa-Marie: And I think, Oh, how can I apply that in the way I approach my clients and for them to open up to me so I can. You know, extract like really great principles and values for their business that we can reflect out. Um, yeah, really love listening to that podcast and this one as well.

[00:24:45] Mel: Naturally. Well, Lisa, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you today. Where can people find out more about you and see some of your work?

[00:24:54] Lisa-Marie: Uh, people can find. out more about me on Instagram, I think is probably the [00:25:00] place where I show up the most. Uh, lisa.design so L I S I E D O T D E S I G N or lisa. design. com.

[00:25:11] Mel: Uh, we talked about this on a podcast episode a little while ago about the channels you choose and you have to choose a channel that best showcases your work and you're a visual person.

[00:25:20] Mel: So it has to be Instagram and a website really. So yeah, we'll put the links in the show notes for everybody as well. Lisa, thank you so much again for your time. You're amazing. We love your work, love your murals, and we'll hopefully talk to you again soon.

[00:25:34] Lisa-Marie: Yes. Thanks, Mel. Appreciate your time today.