Mel: [00:00:00] Hello, friend, and welcome back to Less Chatter, More Matter, and to part two of our chat with Adrian Cropley. Now, if you haven't listened to part one, which was last week's episode, then you need to stop this episode right now and go back and listen.

Off you go. And for those of you who have listened to episode one, then welcome to part two. Last week, Adrian and I spoke about the history of change in the comms profession, the impact AI is having, especially when it comes to the subject of ethical use, and of course, all the risks associated with AI in a new world.

In today's episode, Adrian shares his thoughts on the question of: will AI take our jobs? We discuss what roles will stay and what will go, the potential pitfalls, and Adrian shares the three-tier skills framework recently developed by the Global Alliance for PR and Communications, which outlines the skills we're going to need to develop to stay relevant.

There is loads to share here, so without further ado, here's Adrian

Mel: Is AI going to take our jobs as communicators? [00:01:00]

Adrian: You know, it's, it, it's the, it is the million dollar question.

It's the one we get asked all the time. Um, and I have to say, there's a trend towards people going, "No, no, not at all. You know, we'll always need us because it's not writing the right stuff," blah, blah, blah. It's absolute rot. We can be replaced quite easily. Um, and if we don't- modern, well not, if we don't evolve in our roles, our roles will disappear.

And particularly I think the worry is those entry level jobs. Um, and it- in fact I was talking to Bonnie Caver in, in Prague last week when we were at the Global Alliance Conference. Um, and it is those junior level jobs we're already seeing disappear. Because do you need the person that just writes content?

Well, you, you don't if you've got AI doing it for you. The problem is if you've got AI doing it for you and you do not have the, the, the brain that can go and scan and check and do all of the fact-checking or say where is a human needed in the [00:02:00] process, um, then you've got a problem. And so organ- we've got to be really careful because unless we are demonstrating our value as communication professionals, um, an organisation might say, "Well, why do I need you just to write content?"

So the, the comms professionals, and I know some of them are gonna get really upset when I say if you are just the content writer here, um, and the producer of stuff, you are at risk unless you evolve to say, "So where's the value piece that I add to that?" And it doesn't mean we don't do the writing, but it may be that we're shifting the focus of the role to be much more around the editing.

So is AI doing the first draft and then you're looking at the edits? Are you doing the fact-checking? And then are you adding the human to this one? So it will reduce the time spent on, on producing content, but we've got to be careful our organisations don't equate time spent on content means I don't need [00:03:00] the comms person.

Mm. Um, so we've got to look at how do we become value- valuable in a different way in our organisations. Um- Mm. Because to be perfectly honest, um, you know, when they start falling off the cliff with a represa- a reputation, um, crisis, um, because they've used AI without any controls, without any understanding, um, they'll soon be calling the comms people back in- Yeah

because what we do really well is manage crisis.

Mel: 100%, yep. And look, we're already seeing some really bad examples of that out of big companies like Deloitte and PwC- Mm-hmm ... where they've been caught out using AI, um, for reports that have cost their clients millions and millions of dollars- Yeah ... and the information's actually wrong.

And again-

Adrian: Absolutely ...

Mel: this is the risk. Um, something else you mentioned there about the junior roles You know, uh, particularly ones that are centred around copy, as you say, and g- and generating just stuff and content

Adrian: Mm

Mel: What worries me there is two- twofold. One is, well, are we going to be [00:04:00] missing a talent pipeline?

Yeah Because those people can no longer get their foot in the door to start their career journey. But secondly, are universities keeping up with the, the training that they need to be keeping up with to shift into this new era? Because if you're still teaching the same old things like, "Here's how to write a media release, and here's how to blah, blah, blah," um, you're not setting up these students for what the future is.

Or not even the future, what is now- Now ... and what is evolving. Yeah.

Adrian: And, and universities typically, it is three years to change content, right? Mm. The clever universities, and I think most of them are, are doing it now, is they've got options for things like electives and so on, so you can kind of train on, on those now skills.

But when curriculum takes so long to change when things are changing daily, monthly, um, it becomes problematic. Uh, and, and [00:05:00] so a lot of the universities now are getting their head around micro-learning. Um- Yes ... we've certainly learned that in the, the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence, is that people are going, "Let's plug these gaps with these skills that we really need to, to understand."

So we have to kind of evolve that, that landscape to, to train people. So I, I spoke at, um, RMIT, uh, a few weeks back, and, uh, s- some of the questions I got from students were amazing, is, "What can we be doing now to make us relevant into the workforce?" Because we were talking about this, this topic of, you know, just going in with, "I can write content," um in comms, and I know how to do PR research and all of that sort of stuff, and gonna cut it.

But you go in with the skills that you know how to use AI to do your research- Mm-hmm ... to properly navigate and produce content, and where y- you are needed in, in the steps of the process, that's what we need to [00:06:00] teach right now.

Mel: Mm-hmm. Which actually then brings me to my next question. So with AI taking over quite a few aspects of our roles, like repurposing, creating content, that sort of stuff, how do we need to reposition ourselves?

Adrian: Um, I d- well, I'm, I'm, I'm glad for the question- because this is something I've been working with, uh, for, for a little while. In fact, uh, as I said, I was in Prague last week, and we just launched the second of the Global Alliance's survey results- so it's Reimagining Tomorrow, and, and we did the report last year.

Um, and this year's now we've got two years' worth of data, so we can actually start seeing trend, um, what is actually changing out there. Um, and funnily enough, you know, this topic of, of governance, um, has come up quite strongly. I mean, yes, we are asking those questions 'cause we're talking about responsible AI.

The, um, the issues and the, and that, that we're starting to see, and if I kind of align that to the, the skills that we need to see, [00:07:00] um, I came up with a bit of a, a three-step approach to skills because the themes that I started seeing through the survey is one was around AI data and literacy. Um, and it really is the foundation stuff.

So we need skills to... The things like critical evaluation skills, so understanding rather than just using tools is how is, how is it working? Where is it getting its information from, and how do I check that? Understanding now, funnily enough, one of the big skills is understanding autonomous agents- Mm-hmm

um, and how they work. Now, it's not about the technical how it works, but it's how it sorts information and delivers on those tasks because remember, autonomy is the problem, and we're not into fully autonomous agents yet, thank heavens, which they just think for themselves. Yes. But what we are doing is we're using numbers of LLMs, [00:08:00] like ChatGPT is checking Claude's work, or Claude's checking ChatGPT's work, and it goes into this cycle and says, "Ah, well, we're fairly, fairly good now.

Let's send it out." Mm. So the human is not there making the decisions of final copy, edit, and out it goes. So we have to understand that process because- Mm ... yes, it can be helpful to an organisation, but we need to be part of that loop there. Mm-hmm. So the skills that we need, so that technical skills we do need- Yeah

um, but it's more about the usage of, of the tools, how it interprets data so you can- Mm ... 'cause research is, is revolutionised now. Um, I mean, how many weeks would we spend analysing data and- Oh, God ... pulling the conclusions together and-

Mel: Bloody spreadsheets.

Adrian: I know. And now- ... you know, in 20 minutes, it can analyse 20 reports and give you all the themes and whatever else, but is it pulling the right data from the right sources and making the right conclusions?[00:09:00]

So that is there. And, and a funny one that's hitting the, um, the headlines now is GEO, uh, generative engine optimisation- ... instead of SEO, which is how does AI navigate to find the information? So for people like you and I in, in business, it's all about GEO now, is- Mm ... because people are using AI to find information and organisations, not so much Google anymore. So the, the way that the algorithms work is totally different.

So that's all that base level. So it's, it's about the technology itself- Mm-hmm ... but how we use and interpret the technology. The second level is, is what we call the differentiator, and that is looking at governance, ethics, and accountability. There is a huge role for communication professionals if we choose to take it.

The problem is organisations are already starting to go, "Ooh, is there any experts out there on using AI responsibly?" And so you're [00:10:00] getting people from different skill sets coming in, whereas we're so close to understanding how communication lands in organisations. Mm-hmm. So those ar- areas where we can build and advise on things like responsible AI frameworks, um, helping the organisation say, "This is what we need to look at from a communications point of view in responsible AI."

Mm-hmm. Our survey had basically said, well, awareness has grown in responsible AI. organisations have started to develop responsible AI, but communication professionals are still not quite at the table doing that. They are, some of them are, but not nearly enough in terms of how many organisations are putting responsible AI in place now.

Adrian: So what we have to do is look at leading on AI disclosure, design, implementation. Um, we need to claim that, uh, agentic AI governance before it claims us, basically. Mm-hmm. It will. Um, and we've got to [00:11:00] convert... We had this real confidence in ethics and I, and I love to have seen it that communication professionals say, "I am very confident in explaining ethics," but they're actually not doing it.

Mm-hmm. So it's not part of the role, and it does need to be part of our role. But it comes back to what you and I talked about earlier is like, oh my God, it does your head in when you think about ethics and governance and those things. They're not sexy in our profession, but they've now become important topics.

Mm-hmm. Um, and the, and the one, and it, you know, I haven't, uh, haven't listed this as a skill, but I think things like sustainability, um It's not even on our agenda, and it probably should be- Mm ... 'cause power consumption, you know, part of AI is, is huge. So I think there's, there's a little bit of that there.

The third tier, um, that I've looked is, is called the irreplaceability of skills. Mm. So it's the stuff that makes us [00:12:00] irreplaceable in an organisation, which comes back to that jobs question, and that is about strategic counsel. Mm. It's around being the trusted advisor in the organisation to go, "Wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be doing that even though we can."

So AI gives us the ability, but we gotta ask the question, should we be doing it? Yeah. And so who do they turn to to get that sanity check, that understanding around it? And should we be inserting ourselves into conversations around, "I don't think we should be going out with a chatbot without disclosing it's a chatbot," right?

Mm. Things like judgment in editorial, um, is, is a skill. And, and these are what I call those senior skills, and this is where we've gotta get people into. Um, so it's that judgment piece on, on AI content. Um, authentic storytelling, uh, you'll be pleased to know I,

Mel: yes I am.

Adrian: Absolutely one of those skills that is [00:13:00] critical.

But interesting enough, and somebody at the, the conference in Prague said that storytelling is dead, um, came out- Mm ... in, uh, uh, of an Ipsos MORI survey. And I haven't gone back and had a look at the source yet, but I went, "That's really interesting" because- Mm ... I would assume that storytelling's gonna be even more needed because it's about application, it's about use, it's about our organisation, it's about taking people on a change journey.

Mel: Mm.

Adrian: But I have to end this, the, the, on the, the last skill, which I think is going to excite you to no end, and I think you already know it's there, is change. So- Ta-da. Ta-da. So change management and change communication particularly is a skill that is absolutely needed- Mm ... because we're going through change again, right?

I mean, we... Not that we don't ever stop going through change, but just think about every time an organisation brings in an, a new tool, [00:14:00] a new way of working, changes to jobs, changes to the workforce, how much change communication really needs to happen- Mm ... as part of that. So the big advice is, is, is get those change skills up.

Mel: That's it. And, you know, even... The tool might be technol- technological, might be digital, but the audience is still human. They're human. So, you know- Absolutely ... at the end of the day you're still talking to humans, and that takes skill, and it takes empathy- Yep ... and it takes knowing your audience. Uh, all those things that we bang on about all the time.

Um, but I do like that you, though, that tiered system you've come up with, 'cause you know I love a good framework.

Adrian: Yeah.

Mel: Um,

Adrian: You know I love a framework.

Mel: And of course, you know, it, the centre offers a lot of microcredentials in, like, AI- Yep ... and that sort of stuff too. And it's-

Adrian: And change. Thanks, Mel.

Mel: No worries.

Yeah, just pop on over there and do my change certification. Yes. Ring-ding. Come and do it ... um, but also, you know, you can learn from so many [00:15:00] sources. Like, podcasts like this, they're free. They're, they're free to listen to. Uh, you can find stuff online. You can, uh, go to conferences and just listen to what's going on and get up to speed on those trends.

There's lots of ways to learn outside of, you know, those formal qualifications all the time, and I think people just need to, you know, just go searching for it. Just- Do a Google

Adrian: Yeah. Absolutely

Mel: Just ask good ol' Google.

Adrian: And, and even if it is, and this is, this is the thing, 'cause we, we run an AI forum once a month with the, the centre, and it's just a safe space to chat about AI- Mm-hmm

and, and sometimes share, and sometimes share where you've really ballsed it up and, and, you know- Yep ... um, share where you've got it, got it right, or using a tool together. The, the, the biggest thing I think for communication professionals is don't get into the, the, um, social media trap. Yes. Uh, and that was, you know, oh, I'm gonna resist it for a while, and then I'm so late to the party that I'm not even [00:16:00] going to engage with it until it's f- or it's far too late.

It's engage with it. It doesn't matter whether you're just learning it, doing it with the basics and whatever else. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It is every day you get in and you play with something, you learn something. And so make AI a bit of a playpen, and even if you can't use it in the workplace, use it on the home front.

So whether it's, you know, creating, creating menus for your, your, your dinner party on the weekend and whatever else. Yeah. But start playing with these, these tools now. So I've... You know, one of the things I've always done is have people around me where I go, they'll share with me some of the things they're playing with, and then I'll have a play with it- Mm-hmm

and, and see how I go. I mean, just, just recently I've been using Claude an awful lot now in terms of co-work, um- Mm-hmm ... and getting the, the co-work bot to do certain tasks and activities. I'm a little too scared to give it access to my content, but the reality [00:17:00] is, you know- And we do, do need to be careful.

Once you give it access to things like your email and your files and, and whatever else, and it starts interacting with these things, it, it revolutionises the way that you do things. 'Cause one of the things that we, we looked at in our playbook in the centre at the end of last year, is that there are, um, archetype roles that, um, that are coming up.

I'm sorry, I'm just gonna refer to-

Mel: Yeah, go for it ...

Adrian: to that. So there was, there was four roles that came out of the playbook, and the playbook was saying, how are we evolving our, our communication function? And there was four big roles. One was about the trust builder, um, and this was one happy place for, for, for Bonnie who you- Yes

spoke to. It, it's very much around our brand, our reputation, and our trust in an organisation. And that's somebody who is helping protect, build the reputation of an organisation in a, in an environment where [00:18:00] there is tons of content and deep fake and all of that stuff happening. Um, the responsible AI leader, that is the one that's taking that governance role, looking at responsible AI and how that impacts the, the organisation, and being the organisation's conscience, is what I would call it.

There's the, what we call the alignment orchestrator, which I was really pleased we, we focused... A lot of the data in the market was saying the human absolutely is still needed in the process. But more than that, leadership and human touch is so important to keep people aligned with the organisation and- Mm-hmm

and where it's going. And it makes sense in the change journey that people still want to be connected to their manager, um, and that alignment for the organisation and its purpose. That's never changed in all the time you and I have been around, right?

Mel: That's what we do.

Adrian: But the fourth one I thought was really [00:19:00] interesting because it's saying we need to be the AI simplifier.

Mel: Mm-hmm.

Adrian: And it's to take the fear of use of AI and how we use it within an organisation and help as part of that education process. So another role we can think about is, for communication professionals, is how we help educate people in AI. But we also, at the same time, it's like a parallel journey, we need to be using AI in our work.

We need to be exploring how AI can help in communication, and even putting together strategic communication plans, stakeholder plans, personas, all the things that we do for a job. We need to be the experts at doing that because that's part of our consulting gig in our organisations. Mm-hmm. Because we're not gonna be able to control people using AI But what we can do is help be the guide for them on how to use AI when it comes to communication.[00:20:00]

Love that. And that feels like a good place to wrap up the formal proceedings of today's podcast. Adrian, you know I could talk to you forever, and, uh- I know you can ... you know, we probably will one day. Um, We do. But for now, we do have three questions we ask every guest on the podcast. You ready for those?

I am.

Mel: Okay. What is an unexpected or left-of-field way that you learned a valuable lesson about communication?

Adrian: Um, c- well, communication in general, I think the, the, the left of field, was actually when I went traveling. Um, many, many years ago, I took a year off work, and I went backpacking around the world, 'cause I thought I'd been...

I was done with the profession, and I thought, "I'm gonna come back, reinvent myself, and I'm gonna do something like, uh, healing or massage or something like that." Uh, and I realised traveling the world and looking at how different cultures communicated, 'cause I was immersed in all these different cultures, I saw the value of communication, and I wasn't expecting to [00:21:00] get that lesson of how important human connection is.

It just came so live to me during that time. So-

Mel: Mm ...

Adrian: it was a time where I was reinventing what I wanted to do, and came back and went, "No, I'm staying in this profession."

Mel: Great. Love it. But you c- you stayed in this profession with a lot more insight, so we're glad you did. Yes, e-

Adrian: exactly.

Mel: Now, you've already mentioned a book, but is there another book or a podcast you love that you would recommend to our listeners?

Adrian: Adrian just reached out.

Mel: Ah.

Adrian: Well, I just picked up this one. In fact, Bonnie brought this one for me to, uh, to And

Mel: she mentioned this book in her podcast episode too. She did, yes. So that's two recommendations.

Adrian: Two recommendations for this particular book, which is, uh, Everybody Wins by Matt Domo. Um, and m- and I'll just say Bonnie, Bonnie met him.

But he has some really good guidance there for leadership and working in, in, in AI. Um, and it's a, it's a j- and it's a very easy read as well.

Mel: Excellent. We like an easy read.

Adrian: But you, you [00:22:00] know I, I would highly recommend your books as well, Mel.

Mel: Oh, obviously. Yeah.

Adrian: I'll go for that

Mel: one. I'm still waiting for yours to come out,

Adrian.

Adrian: I know. I know. Uh, if anybody's listening, Mel keeps saying, "Adrian, when are you, when have you got that book going?" 'Cause I did promise I'm gonna get this done at some stage.

Mel: Yes. Yes, I think we need to put a deadline, 'cause it just keeps being, "At some stage."

Adrian: It does. It does. Deadlines need to happen.

Mel: Now, last question.

If you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about communication at work, what would it be?

Adrian: Um, the one thing I would change is... Yeah, bet- I, I'd love to ma- wave the magic wand and that people who resist change in this era of AI in our profession absolutely- uh, through the magic, become very empowered to go out there and say, "I have an important role in this organisation, and I'm going to take that role.

Um, I'm gonna make, own it, and [00:23:00] become that advisor for the organisation"

Mel: I love that. And, uh, I hope everybody who's listening just sprinkles a bit of magic on themselves today and, and goes and

Adrian: plans- Well, you don't need. It'll be fairy dust ...

Mel: yes, fairy dust for Adrian. Now, Adrian, if people wanted to connect with you, find out more about what you do, what the centre offers, what's the best way for them to do that?

Adrian: Uh, look, they can go straight to the CSC website, which is thecsc.com, um, or connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, I'm always happy to connect. Um, absolutely reach out. Love to, love to chat and, and, and share any, any advice, any, uh, any thoughts.

Mel: Wonderful. Well, Adrian, thank you so much for joining us on Less Chatter, More Matter today.

Adrian: Thank you, and it did matter today. It was great spending the time with you.

Mel: We certainly had more chatter, but more matter- Yeah ... so it's okay.

Thanks so much.

Adrian: Thanks, Mel.